Jerusalem Talmud Taanit 4:5
Jerusalem Talmud Taanit 4:5
The Mishnah lists five calamities that befell Israel on the Seventeenth of Tammuz, including the breaking of the tablets and the breaching of the city, and five on the Ninth of Av, with the passage subsequently debating whether the city's breaching occurred on the Seventeenth of Tammuz or Ninth of Av through interpretations of conflicting scriptural dates.
משנה: חֲמִשָּׁה דְבָרִים אֵירְעוּ אֶת אֲבוֹתֵינוּ בְּשִׁבְעָה עָשָׂר בְּתַמּוּז וַחֲמִשָּׁה בְּתִשְׁעָה בְאָב. בְּשִׁבְעָה עָשָׂר בְּתַמּוּז נִשְׁתַּבְּרוּ הַלּוּחוֹת וּבָטַל הַתָּמִיד וְהוֹבְקְעָה הָעִיר וְשָׂרַף אַפּוֹסְטוֹמוֹס אֶת הַתּוֹרָה וְהֶעֱמִיד צֶלֶם בַּהֵיכָל. בְּתִשְׁעָה בְאָב נִגְזַר עַל אֲבוֹתֵינוּ שֶׁלֹּא יִכָּנְסוּ לָאָרֶץ וְחָרַב הַבַּיִת בָּרִאשׁוֹנָה וּבַשְּׁנִיָּה וְנִלְכְּדָה בֶּיתָּר וְנֶחְרְשָׁה הָעִיר. וְהוֹבְקְעָה הָעִיר. כָּתוּב בְּתִשְׁעָה לַחוֹדֶשׁ הוֹבְקְעָה הָעִיר וְאַתְּ אָמַר הָכֵין. אָמַר רִבִּי תַנְחוּם בַּר חֲנִילַאי. קִילְקוּל חֶשְׁבוֹנוֹת יֵשׁ כָּאן. הָדָא הִיא דִכְתִיב וַיְהִי בְּעַשְׁתֵּי עֶשְׂרֵה שָׁנָה בְּאֶחָד לַחוֹדֶשׁ הָיָה דְבַר יי אֵלַי לֵאמֹר. בֶּן אָדָם יַעַן אֲשֶׁר אָמְרָה צּוֹר עַל יְרוּשָׁלַם הֶאָח. מָהוּ הֶאַח. אִין תִּימַר. בְּאֶחָד בְּאַב. עַדַּיִין לָא נִשְׂרַף. אִין תֵּימַר בְּאֶחָד בְּאֶלּוּל. [בְּ]יוֹם וָלַיְלָה נְפַק בַּלְדָּרָה מִן יְרוּשָׁלִַם וְאָתֵי לְצוֹר. אֶלָּא קִילְקוּל חֶשְׁבוֹנוֹת יֵשׁ כָּאן. רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן וְרִבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ. רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר. לַמֶּלֶךְ שֶׁהָיָה יוֹשֵׁב וּמְחַשֵּׁב חֶשְׁבּוֹנוֹת. בָּאוּ וְאָמְרוּ לוֹ. נִשְׁבָּה בִּנְךָ. וְנִתְקַלְקְלוֹ חֶשְׁבּוֹנוֹתָיו. אָמַר. יֵיעָשֶׂה זֶה רֹאשׁ לַחֶשְׁבוֹנוֹת. רִבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ אָמַר. לַמֶּלֶךְ שֶׁהָיָה יוֹשֵׁב וּמְחַשֵּׁב חֶשְׁבּוֹנוֹתָיו. בָּאוּ וְאָמְרוּ לוֹ. נִשְׁבָּה בִּנְךָ וְנִתְקַדֵּשׁ. אָמַר. יֵיעָשֶׂה זֶה רֹאשׁ לַחֶשְׁבוֹנוֹת. רִבִּי מָנָא בָעִי. נִיחָא נִתְקַלְקְלוֹ לְשֶׁעָבַר. דִּילְמָא לְהַבָּא. בֵּין כְּמָאן דְּאָמַר. בַּתִּשְׁעָה לַחוֹדֶשׁ. בֵּין כְּמָאן דְּאָמַר. בְּשִׁבְעָה עָשָׂר. [מַה בֵינִיהוֹן.] עֶשְׂרִים וְאֶחָד יוֹם מִיּוֹם שְׁהוֹבְקְעָה הָעִיר וְעַד יוֹם שֶׁחָרַב בֵּית הַמִּקְדָּשׁ. אָמַר רִבִּי אָבוּנָה. סִימָנָא מַקֵּל שָׁקֵד אֲנִי רוֹאֶה. מָה הַלּוּז הַזֶּה מִשֶּׁהוּא מוֹצִיא אֶת נִיצּוֹ וְעַד שֶׁהוּא גוֹמֵר אֶת פֵּירוֹתָיו עֶשְׂרִים וְאֶחָד יוֹם. כָּךְ מִיּוֹם שְׁהוֹבְקְעָה הָעִיר וְעַד יוֹם שֶׁחָרַב הַבַּיִת עֶשְׂרִים וְאֶחָד יוֹם. מָאן דְּאָמַר. בַּתִּשְׁעָה לַחוֹדֶשׁ. (בְּשִׁבְעָה עָשָׂר) [בְּאֶחָד] בְּאַב חָרַב הַבַּיִת. מָאן דְּאָמַר בְּשִׁבְעָה עָשָׂר. בְּתִשְׁעָה בְאַב חָרַב הַבַּיִת.
MISHNAH: Five things happened to our forefathers on the Seventeenth of Tammuz and five on the Ninth of Av. On the Seventeenth of Tammuz were the tablets broken, the daily sacrifice ceased, the city was breached, Apostomos burned the Torah, and put up an idol in the Temple. On the Ninth of Av was decided that our forefathers would not enter the Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second times, Betar was taken, and the city ploughed over. “And the city was breached.” It is written, on the Ninth of the month the city was breached, and you are saying so? Rebbi Tanḥum bar Ḥanilai said, here is an erroneous computation. That is what is written, it was in the eleventh year, on the first of the month, was the Eternal’s word to me, saying: Son of man, since Tyre said about Jerusalem hurrah. What “hurrah”? If you are saying on the first of Av, it still was not burned. If you are saying on the first of Ellul, cannot in one day and night the messenger leave Jerusalem and arrive at Tyre? But here is an erroneous computation. Rebbi Joḥanan and Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish. Rebbi Joḥanan said, {a parable} of a king who was sitting and computing computations. They came and told him, your son was kidnapped; his computations became erroneous. He said, let this be the beginning of computations. Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish said, {a parable} of a king who was sitting and computing computations. They came and told him, your son was kidnapped and incapacitated; his computations became erroneous. He said, let this be the beginning of computations. Rebbi Mana asked, one understands this that they were erroneous for the past; maybe for the future? Whether one follows him who said on the ninth of the month, or the one who said on the seventeenth, [in what do they differ?] there are twenty-one days from the day the city was breached to the day the Temple was destroyed. Rebbi Abuna said, an indication, I am seeing an almond stick. Since this almond tree from sprouting its flower to finishing its fruit needs twenty-one days, so from the day the city was breached to the day the Temple was destroyed twenty-one days. He who says on the Ninth of the month, the Temple was destroyed on the first of Av. He who says on the Seventeenth, the Temple was destroyed on the Ninth of Av.