Halachaהלכה

Identity and Legal Documents: Yosef Ben Shimon

Jewish legal texts use the example of two people named Yosef ben Shimon to illustrate why a common name and patronymic alone cannot legally identify a person in documents. The sources show how the recurring use of this ordinary name across centuries of halakhic discussion reflects a deliberate pedagogical choice: the problem is not that the name is unusual, but that identical names create genuine ambiguity requiring additional identifying details.

שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהָיוּ בְּעִיר אַחַת, שֵׁם אֶחָד יוֹסֵף בֶּן שִׁמְעוֹן וְשֵׁם אַחֵר יוֹסֵף בֶּן שִׁמְעוֹן

12 sources · all verified

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What the sources say

The core discussion begins in the mishna cited at Bava Batra 172b, which rules that if two men in one city are both named Yosef ben Shimon, neither can collect a promissory note against the other, nor can a third party collect against either of them, out of concern that a note belonging to one could have fallen and been found by the other or by someone else — yet each of them can still collect from others, a distinction the Gemara works to justify.

Bava Batra 173a shows that this is actually a three-way dispute among tannaim about whether a scribe may write a promissory note for a borrower before the lender is present, since that practice is what creates the risk that a found document reflects an unpaid loan rather than clear proof of debt — the case of two bearers of an identical name is simply the clearest test case for working out that underlying concern.

The same name-pair recurs in Gittin 24b, where Rava draws a parallel ruling about two men named Yosef ben Shimon living in the same city with respect to collecting debts from others, and Abaye challenges the parallel by comparing it to the law of a bill of divorce where two men share the same name, showing that the halachic consequences of a shared name are tested across multiple areas of monetary and family law using this identical example.

Bava Metzia 18 extends the discussion to divorce documents, ruling that a concern that a bill of divorce might belong to another man of the same name applies specifically where it has been established that two people named, for example, Yosef ben Shimon, are known to live in that particular city — meaning the designation is a stock legal illustration for the generic case of two identically named residents, not a statement about Yosef ben Shimon as a historically significant name per se.

The Meiri, commenting on Bava Batra 172b, treats the Yosef ben Shimon case as structurally identical to the case of Reuven ben Yehuda producing a note where the lender's name was omitted, confirming that the name pairing is used by the Rishonim purely as an illustrative example for the broader principle of identical names, interchangeable with other name pairs.

The Shulchan Arukh codifies this ruling in Shulchan Arukh, Choshen Mishpat 49:7, preserving the same two-Yosef-ben-Shimon scenario as the standard illustration for the law of identically named residents and a document containing a kinyan, while the Rema notes an internal tension in the reasoning behind the law.

Separately, Shabbat 103a discusses how an abbreviated form of a name such as Shimon can itself constitute a liable act of writing, showing that Shimon functions elsewhere in the Gemara as a generic, commonly used name for such illustrations, which is consistent with its use as half of the standard example name pair.

The sources concerning Yosef himself — his naming in Bereishit 30:23-24, Rashi's comment there that Rachel prophetically sought only one more son in Rashi (Bereishit 30:23-24), his renaming by Pharaoh in Bereishit 41:45, and the figure of Mashiach ben Yosef in Sukkah 52a — do not address the Gemara's legal use of 'Yosef ben Shimon' as a stock example for identically named litigants, and nothing in these passages bears on why that particular name pairing was chosen for the legal discussions in Bava Batra, Gittin, or Bava Metzia.

Likewise, Mesillat Yesharim 3:17-18, which discusses the darkness of night and errors of perception regarding physicality, has no bearing on the question of the significance of the name Yosef ben Shimon in these halachic discussions.

Source 1 · Tanach
Verified

Genesis 30:23-24

בראשית ל׳:כ״ג-כ״ד

Genesis 30:23-24

Rachel names her son Yosef, linking the name both to removing disgrace and to the request that God add another son. The name therefore naturally carries the idea of addition or another—an evocative background for a legal example involving more than one Yosef.

וַתִּקְרָ֧א אֶת־שְׁמ֛וֹ יוֹסֵ֖ף לֵאמֹ֑ר יֹסֵ֧ף יְהֹוָ֛ה לִ֖י בֵּ֥ן אַחֵֽר׃

So she named him Joseph, that is to say, “May GOD add another son for me.”

Source 2 · Tanach
Verified

Genesis 41:45

בראשית מ״א:מ״ה

Genesis 41:45

Pharaoh gives Joseph the name Tzafnat Paneach, showing that a person may have multiple names and that names operate within social and institutional contexts. The passage can enrich the question of why a legal text tests identity through a familiar Hebrew name rather than treating names as self-authenticating.

וַיִּקְרָ֨א פַרְעֹ֣ה שֵׁם־יוֹסֵף֮ צָֽפְנַ֣ת פַּעְנֵ֒חַ֒ וַיִּתֶּן־ל֣וֹ אֶת־אָֽסְנַ֗ת בַּת־פּ֥וֹטִי פֶ֛רַע כֹּהֵ֥ן אֹ֖ן לְאִשָּׁ֑ה וַיֵּצֵ֥א יוֹסֵ֖ף עַל־אֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם׃

Pharaoh then gave Joseph the name Zaphenath-paneah; and he gave him for a wife Asenath daughter of Poti-phera, priest of On. Thus Joseph emerged in charge of the land of Egypt.—

Source 3 · Chazal
Verified

Bava Batra 172b

בבא בתרא קע״ב ב — ד"ה דִּתְנַן

Bava Batra 172b:7-8

The Gemara discusses a document naming two people as Yosef ben Shimon and explains that such a name is not sufficiently identifying for legal purposes. The example establishes the broader principle that a document must distinguish among people with identical names.

דִּתְנַן: שְׁנַיִם שֶׁהָיוּ בְּעִיר אַחַת, שֵׁם אֶחָד יוֹסֵף בֶּן שִׁמְעוֹן וְשֵׁם אַחֵר יוֹסֵף בֶּן שִׁמְעוֹן – אֵינָן יְכוֹלִין לְהוֹצִיא שְׁטַר חוֹב זֶה עַל זֶה, וְלֹא אַחֵר יָכוֹל לְהוֹצִיא עֲלֵיהֶן שְׁטַר חוֹב. הָא הֵם עַל אֲחֵרִים – יְכוֹלִין; וְאַמַּאי? לֵיחוּשׁ לִנְפִילָה! אֶלָּא לָאו שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ לִנְפִילָה לָא חָיְישִׁינַן? וְאַבָּיֵי – לִנְפִילָה דְחַד לָא חָיְישִׁינַן, לִנְפִילָה דְרַבִּים חָיְישִׁינַן.

As we learned in the mishna: If there are two people who were living in one city, one named Yosef ben Shimon and the other also named Yosef ben Shimon, one cannot present a promissory note against the other, as the purported debtor can claim: On the contrary, it is you who owed me money; you repaid me and I returned this note to you upon payment. Nor can another, third person, present a promissory note against either of them. This indicates that one of them can present a promissory note against others. But why can they do so? Let there be a concern for the possibility of the promissory note falling from one Yosef ben Shimon and being found by the other. Rather, must one not conclude from this mishna that we are not concerned for the possibility of the promissory note falling from one Yosef ben Shimon and being found by the other? The Gemara asks: And why did Abaye, who is concerned for this possibility, not see a proof to the contrary from the mishna? He would counter: We are not concerned for the possibility of a promissory note falling from one particular person and being found by the other person with the same name, which is the case in the mishna, as that is extremely unlikely. We are concerned for the possibility of a promissory note falling from one of the general public and being found by someone else.

Source 4 · Chazal
Verified

Bava Batra 173a

בבא בתרא קע״ג א — ד"ה וְאֶלָּא הָא דְּתַנְיָא

Bava Batra 173a:10-12

The surrounding sugya develops procedures for resolving ambiguity in documents and obligations when names are shared. Read with 172b, it shows why Yosef ben Shimon is a useful legal thought experiment: the name appears specific while remaining non-unique.

וְאֶלָּא הָא דְּתַנְיָא: כְּשֵׁם שֶׁמּוֹצִיאִין הֵן שְׁטַר חוֹב עַל אֲחֵרִים – כָּךְ מוֹצִיאִין זֶה עַל זֶה; בְּמַאי קָמִיפַּלְגִי? בְּכוֹתְבִין שְׁטָר לַלֹּוֶה וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין מַלְוֶה עִמּוֹ קָמִיפַּלְגִי – תַּנָּא דִּידַן סָבַר: כּוֹתְבִין שְׁטָר לַלֹּוֶה, וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין מַלְוֶה עִמּוֹ; זִימְנִין דְּאָזֵיל לְגַבֵּי סָפְרָא וְסָהֲדֵי, וְאָמַר לְהוּ: כְּתֻבוּ לִי שְׁטָרָא, דְּבָעֵינַן לְמֵיזַף מִיּוֹסֵף בֶּן שִׁמְעוֹן חַבְרַי; וּבָתַר דְּכָתְבִי וְחָתְמִי לֵיהּ, נָקֵיטא לֵיהּ וְאָמַר לֵיהּ: הַב לִי מְאָה דִּיזַפְתְּ מִינַּאי.

§ The Gemara returns to discuss the case of two men with the same name. But what about that which is taught in another baraita: Just as the two men named Yosef ben Shimon can produce a promissory note against others, so can they produce promissory notes against one another. This represents a third opinion, standing in opposition to both the mishna and the previous baraita. The Gemara asks: With regard to what do the mishna and first baraita on the one hand, and this baraita on the other, disagree? The Gemara answers: They disagree about whether or not a scribe may write a promissory note for a debtor even if the creditor is not with him. The tanna of our mishna holds that a scribe may write a promissory note for a debtor even if the creditor is not with him. The Gemara explains: At times, it could happen that one of the men named Yosef ben Shimon goes to a scribe and to witnesses and says to them: Write a promissory note for me, as I wish to borrow money from another Yosef ben Shimon. And then, after they write the document and sign it for him, he will take it and say to the other Yosef ben Shimon: Give me the hundred dinars that you borrowed from me, as attested to in this document. That is the reason why the mishna rules that two people of the same name cannot collect a debt through a promissory note from one another, thereby preventing this occurrence.

Source 5 · Chazal
Verified

Gittin 24b

גיטין כ״ד ב — ד"ה אָמַר רָבָא

Gittin 24b:11-13

The Gemara addresses identifying people in legal documents and the concern that a get or other document may be assigned to the wrong individual. This provides a parallel context for why a repeated personal name cannot by itself establish identity.

אָמַר רָבָא: זֹאת אוֹמֶרֶת, שְׁנֵי יוֹסֵף בֶּן שִׁמְעוֹן הַדָּרִין בְּעִיר אַחַת – מוֹצִיאִין שְׁטַר חוֹב עַל אֲחֵרִים. אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי: אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה, רֵישָׁא דְּקָתָנֵי: שְׁמִי כְּשִׁמְךָ – פָּסוּל לְגָרֵשׁ בּוֹ; שֵׁנִי הוּא דְּלָא מָצֵי מְגָרֵשׁ בֵּיהּ, הָא רִאשׁוֹן מָצֵי מְגָרֵשׁ בֵּיהּ?! וְהָא אָמְרִינַן: ״וְלֹא אַחֵר יָכוֹל לְהוֹצִיא עֲלֵיהֶן שְׁטַר חוֹב״! אֶלָּא מַאי אִית לָךְ לְמֵימַר? בְּעֵדֵי מְסִירָה, וְרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר הִיא;

Rava said: That is to say that one of two people with identical names, e.g., Yosef ben Shimon, who live in one city, can present a promissory note to claim a debt from others, and the borrower cannot claim that the promissory note was written for the other Yosef ben Shimon. Abaye said to him: If that is so, then according to your reasoning, from the earlier clause of the mishna that teaches that if one man requests a bill of divorce from another, saying: My name is the same as your name, the bill of divorce is unfit for the second person to divorce his wife with it, one could infer that the second man is the one who is not able to divorce with it, but the first man is able to divorce with it even though they have the same names. But didn’t we say in a mishna (Bava Batra 172a): With regard to two people with identical names, neither of them can present a promissory note to the other, and another person cannot present a promissory note to them, as each one can deny that he is the one who owes the money? Here too, there is a concern lest the wife of the other use the bill of divorce to collect payment of her marriage contract even though the bill of divorce was not written for her. Rather, what have you to say to explain how the first man can divorce his wife with this bill of divorce, and how it can be used as a reliable proof of divorce? One can say that the ruling of the mishna applies in a case where there are witnesses who observe the transmission of the bill of divorce, and they confirm in court which woman was given the bill of divorce. And this mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Elazar, who holds that presence of witnesses at the transmission of the bill of divorce is essential to its taking effect, so there is no concern that the wife of the other man will claim payment of her marriage contract.

Source 6 · Chazal
Verified

Bava Metzia 18

בבא מציעא י״ח:א׳ — ד"ה מַאי ״גּוֹבָה אֶת הַכֹּל״

Bava Metzia 18:1

The passage explains that concern over a found bill of divorce belonging to another man with the same name applies even where travelers are common only when two Yosef ben Shimon are known to live in the same city; otherwise, it should be returned.

וַאֲפִילּוּ בִּמְקוֹם שֶׁהַשְּׁיָירוֹת מְצוּיוֹת – וְהוּא שֶׁהוּחְזְקוּ שְׁנֵי יוֹסֵף בֶּן שִׁמְעוֹן בְּעִיר אַחַת. דְּאִי לָא תֵּימָא הָכִי, קַשְׁיָא דְּרַבָּה אַדְּרַבָּה. דְּהָהוּא גִּיטָּא דְּאִשְׁתְּכַח בֵּי דִינָא דְּרַב הוּנָא, דַּהֲוָה כְּתִוב בֵּיהּ בִּשְׁוִירֵי מָתָא דְּעַל רָכִיס נַהֲרָא. אָמַר רַב הוּנָא: וְהָא בֵּי דִינָא דְּרַב הוּנָא, דְּכִי מְקוֹם שֶׁהַשְּׁיָירוֹת מְצוּיוֹת דָּמֵי, וְקָא פָּשֵׁיט רַבָּה דְּיַחְזִיר, אַלְמָא אִי הוּחְזְקוּ שְׁנֵי יוֹסֵף בֶּן שִׁמְעוֹן – אִין, אִי לָא – לָא.

The Gemara adds: And even in a place where caravans passing through are common, there is not always a concern that the bill of divorce may belong to another man with an identical name, and this concern is only where it has been established that there are two men named, for example, Yosef ben Shimon in that one city. As, if you do not say so, that this concern is taken into account only in a place where it is known that there are two people with this same name, then there is a difficulty presented in the form of a contradiction between this statement of Rabba and another statement of Rabba. As there was a certain bill of divorce that was found in the court of Rav Huna, in which it was written that the bill of divorce was written in Sheviri City, which is located on the Rakhis River. Rav Huna said about this: The Gemara concludes its proof that even in a place where passing caravans are common, the concern that the bill of divorce belongs to another couple applies only if it is known that there is another couple in the same locale with the same names as those written in the bill of divorce: And the court of Rav Huna is comparable to a place where passing caravans are common, as many people from different places pass through for judgment. And yet, Rabba resolved that if one finds a bill of divorce there, he should return it. Evidently he holds that if it is established that there are two people named Yosef ben Shimon in the city, then there is indeed a concern and the document should not be returned, but if not, there is no concern.

Source 7 · Chazal
Verified

Shabbat 103a

שבת ק״ג א — ד"ה מַתְנִי׳ הַכּוֹתֵב שְׁתֵּי אוֹתִיּוֹת

Shabbat 103a:8

The passage states that writing two letters on Shabbat is liable regardless of hand, ink, or language, and Rabbi Yehuda derives liability for an incomplete name from examples in which two letters form a shorter name within a longer one, including “Shem” from Shimon or Shmuel.

מַתְנִי׳ הַכּוֹתֵב שְׁתֵּי אוֹתִיּוֹת, בֵּין בִּימִינוֹ בֵּין בִּשְׂמֹאלוֹ, בֵּין מִשֵּׁם אֶחָד בֵּין מִשְּׁנֵי שֵׁמוֹת בֵּין מִשְׁתֵּי סַמָּנִיּוֹת, בְּכׇל לָשׁוֹן — חַיָּיב. אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי: לֹא חִיְּיבוּ שְׁתֵּי אוֹתִיּוֹת אֶלָּא מִשּׁוּם רוֹשֵׁם, שֶׁכָּךְ כּוֹתְבִין עַל קַרְשֵׁי הַמִּשְׁכָּן לֵידַע אֵיזוֹ בֶּן זוּגוֹ. אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה: מָצִינוּ שֵׁם קָטָן מִשֵּׁם גָּדוֹל — ״שֵׁם״ מִשִּׁמְעוֹן וּמִשְּׁמוּאֵל, ״נֹחַ״ מִנָּחוֹר, ״דָּן״ מִדָּנִיאֵל, ״גָּד״ מִגַּדִּיאֵל.

MISHNA: One who writes two letters on Shabbat, whether he did so with his right hand or his left, whether they were the same letter or two different letters, whether he did so using two different types of ink, in any language, he is liable. Rabbi Yosei said: One is deemed liable for writing two letters only due to marking, as they would write symbols on adjacent beams of the Tabernacle to know which beam was another beam’s counterpart. Rabbi Yehuda said: We found that one is liable for writing even if he did not complete what he was writing, so that he wrote a small name that constituted part of a longer name, e.g., Shem [shin mem] from the name Shimon or from Shmuel; Noaḥ [nun ḥet] from Naḥor; Dan [dalet nun] from Daniel; Gad [gimmel dalet] from Gaddiel. In all of these cases, the first two letters of the longer name constitute the shorter name.

Source 8 · Chazal
Verified

Sukkah 52a

סוכה נ״ב א — ד"ה תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן

Sukkah 52a:6

Chachmei Bavel describe Messiah ben David asking God only for life after seeing Messiah ben Yosef killed, and God answers that David had already prophesied his receiving life and enduring days.

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: מָשִׁיחַ בֶּן דָּוִד שֶׁעָתִיד לְהִגָּלוֹת בִּמְהֵרָה בְּיָמֵינוּ, אוֹמֵר לוֹ הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא: שְׁאַל מִמֶּנִּי דָּבָר וְאֶתֵּן לָךְ, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״אֲסַפְּרָה אֶל חוֹק וְגוֹ׳ אֲנִי הַיּוֹם יְלִדְתִּיךָ. שְׁאַל מִמֶּנִּי וְאֶתְּנָה גוֹיִם נַחֲלָתֶךָ״. וְכֵיוָן שֶׁרָאָה מָשִׁיחַ בֶּן יוֹסֵף שֶׁנֶּהֱרַג, אוֹמֵר לְפָנָיו: רִבּוֹנוֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם! אֵינִי מְבַקֵּשׁ מִמְּךָ אֶלָּא חַיִּים. אוֹמֵר לוֹ: חַיִּים, עַד שֶׁלֹּא אָמַרְתָּ כְּבָר הִתְנַבֵּא עָלֶיךָ דָּוִד אָבִיךָ, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״חַיִּים שָׁאַל מִמְּךָ נָתַתָּה לוֹ וְגוֹ׳״.

The Sages taught: To Messiah ben David, who is destined to be revealed swiftly in our time, the Holy One, Blessed be He, says: Ask of Me anything and I will give you whatever you wish, as it is stated: “I will tell of the decree; the Lord said unto me: You are My son, this day have I begotten you, ask of Me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession” (Psalms 2:7–8). Once the Messiah ben David saw Messiah ben Yosef, who was killed, he says to the Holy One, Blessed be He: Master of the Universe, I ask of you only life; that I will not suffer the same fate. The Holy One, Blessed be He, says to him: Life? Even before you stated this request, your father, David, already prophesied about you with regard to this matter precisely, as it is stated: “He asked life of You, You gave it to him; even length of days for ever and ever” (Psalms 21:5).

Source 9 · Rishonim
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Meiri on Bava Batra 172b

מאירי על בבא בתרא קע״ב ב — ד"ה מי שהוציא שטר חוב על חברו

Meiri on Bava Batra 172b:1

Meiri explains the practical documentary problem posed by identical names and the safeguards required to identify the proper party. His treatment helps frame Yosef ben Shimon as a deliberately normal and reusable legal example.

מי שהוציא שטר חוב על חברו וכתוב בו אני ראובן בן יהודה לויתי ממך מנה וזה מוציאו על ראובן בן יהודה זה ולא הוזכר בשטר החוב שם המלוה כלל אלא לויתי ממך הואיל ושם הלוה ידוע ונזכר שם זה שיצא שטר זה מתחת ידו גובה בו ואין יכול לומר לא ממך לויתי אלא מאחר ונפל הימנו ומצאת שאין חוששין לנפילה וכן שני יוסף בן שמעון אע"פ שאין יכולין להוציא חוב זה על זה ולא אחר עליהם יכולים הם מיהא להוציא על אחרים וכל שאחד מהם מוציא חוב על אחד מבני העיר אין הנתבע יכול לדחותו ולומר לא לך אני חייב אלא לחברך וממנו נפל השטר שאין חוששין לנפילה והמוציאו הוא הוא שגובה בו וזהו דעת משנתנו ואע"פ שהבריתא חולקת בכך הלכה כמשנתנו זו היא שטת גדולי הפוסקים והמחברים ומ"מ גדולי הדורות שלפנינו חולקים בה מצד מה שנאמר בסוגיא זו שבמשנתנו באה על דעת האומר אותיות נקנות במסירה ומאחר שכן אפילו שהיה כדבריו שמחברו לוה הואיל ולנפילה לא חיישינן הרי אתה צריך לומר שחברו מסרה לו והרי קנאה במסירה אבל הבריתא באה על דעת האומר אין אותיות נקנות במסירה הא מ"מ אע"פ שאין לחוש לנפילה יש לחוש שחברו מסרה לו ואין אותיות נקנות במסירה וכבר פסקנו שאין אותיות נקנות במסירה ולדעתי אין הכרח בדברים אלו שדברי סוגיא ומשא ומתן אין מכריעין לפסוק כבריתא במקום משנה ועיקר הדברים כדעת ראשון:

Source 10 · Rishonim
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Rashi on Genesis 30:23-24

רש"י על בראשית ל׳:כ״ג-כ״ד

Rashi on Genesis 30:23-24

Rashi explains that Rachel knew prophetically that Jacob would father twelve tribes, so she prayed that the remaining tribe would come from her and asked for only one additional son.

יסף ה' לי בן אחר. יוֹדַעַת הָיְתָה בִנְבוּאָה שֶׁאֵין יַעֲקֹב עָתִיד לְהַעֲמִיד אֶלָּא שְׁנֵים עָשָׂר שְׁבָטִים, אָמְרָה יְהִי רָצוֹן שֶׁאוֹתוֹ שֶׁהוּא עָתִיד לְהַעֲמִיד יְהֵא מִמֶּנִּי, לְכָךְ לֹא נִתְפַּלְּלָה אֶלָּא עַל בֵּן אַחֵר:

יסף ה' לי בן אחר THE ETERNAL WILL ADD TO ME ANOTHER SON — She knew prophetically that Jacob would rear only twelve tribes. She therefore prayed: “May it be God’s will that the tribe which he is yet destined to rear may issue from me”. For this reason she prayed only for one other son (Genesis Rabbah 72:6).

Source 11 · Acharonim
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Shulchan Arukh, Choshen Mishpat

שולחן ערוך, חושן משפט מ״ט:ז׳ — ד"ה היו שנים בעיר אחת שם כל

Shulchan Arukh, Choshen Mishpat 49:7

The Shulchan Arukh treats the problem of two people bearing the same name and the need for identifying details. It preserves Yosef ben Shimon as the standard example because the issue is not the unusualness of the name but the insufficiency of a common patronymic alone.

היו שנים בעיר אחת שם כל אחד מהם יוסף בן שמעון אין שום אחד מהם יכול להוציא שטר על חבירו אם יש בו קנין שיאמר לו שטר זה שאתה מוציא עלי שלי הוא והחזרתי לך כשפרעת לי החוב שהיה לי בידך: הגה דבריו סותרים זה את זה בכאן דלפי ה"ט שיכול לומר האי שטרא שלי והחזרתיו לך אין חילוק בין שטר שיש בו קנין או אין בו קנין אבל יש מפרשים הטעם שאין מוציאין שטר זה על זה מטעם דכותבין שטר ללוה אע"פ שאין מלוה עמו וחיישינן שזה המוציאו הוא הלוה ובזה אין לחוש רק בשטר שיש בו קנין כדלעיל ס"ס ל"ט ולכן כתב כאן בתחלה דבעי' שטר שיש בו קנין וא"כ יש סתירה בדבריו) ולא אחר יכול להוציא שטר חוב עליהם שכל אחד יאמר לא עלי נכתב שטר זה אלא על חבירי אא"כ באו עידי השטר בעצמם ואמרו זהו השטר שהעדנו עליו וזהו שהעדנו עליו בהלואה ואם עדים אחרים העידו כן יש לו דין מלוה על פה ואם היה א' מהן קטן בזמן הכתוב בשטר גובין מהאחר ומה תקנתם יכתבו שם זקנם ואם גם שם זקנם שוה יכתבו שום סימן: הגה י"א דאם הם מב' עיירות מוציאים שטר חוב עליהם דצריכים לכתוב שם העיר של לוה או מלוה בשטר (טור בשם הר"ר ישעיה) ויש אומרים דאין כותבין שם העיר בשטרות (רמב"ם פי"ז מה' מלוה וטור סי' ס"א) וכן נוהגין מיהו ודאי אם הם מב' עיירות וכתבו שם העיר של א' מהן לא גרע מסימן וליכא למיטעי באחר כלל כנ"ל אם ב' יוסף בן שמעון בעיר א' והא' מת אביו וכ' בשטר יב"ש שלי"ט או נר"ו וכמו שכותבין על מי שאביו חי אם כתבו העדים אמר לנו יוסף בן שמעון שליט"א הוי סי' אבל אם כתוב בשטר אני יב"ש שלי"ט או כיוצא בזה לויתי מפלוני כו' והעדים חתומים למטה אין זה סי' דחיישינן שמא השני הערים לכתוב כך והעדים לא דקדקו בכך דלאו אכולה מילתא קא מסהדי (ב"י בשם הרשב"א): אבל הם מוציאין שטרות על אחר ולא יכול האחר לומר לא נתחייבתי לך אלא לחבירך ששמו כשמך שכל מי שהשטר יוצא מתחת ידו מחזקינן ליה בשלו: הגה אבל אם אין השטר יוצא מתחת ידו אע"פ שמודה שחייב לאחד מהם אינם יכולים להוציא ממנו (נ"י בשם הריטב"א) אלא בהרשאה שיתנו זה לזה (ד"ע) ואם יש בידו שובר מאחד מהם אין שום א' מהם יכול לתובעו שיאמר לכל א' מהם אתה כתבת לי זה השובר ומיהו אם יכתבו הרשאה זה לזה יגבה א' מהם שהרי הוא מודה שלא פרע אלא לאחד ואם יטעון פרעתי לשניכם וצויתי לכתוב שובר א' כי הוא יספיק לי להראותו לכל מי שיבא מכם לתבעני חובי טענתו טענה ולא יועיל הרשאה:

7. If two individuals in the city both had the name Yosef ben Shimon, neither of them can produce a document against the other if the document contains a kinyan because the defendant can say that this document that you are producing against me is mine and I returned it to you when you paid me back for the money you owed me. RAMA: The Mecahber’s words contradict each other because there is no distinction between a document with a kinyan and one without if the reasoning for the foregoing is that one can say this document is mine and I returned it to you. There are those, however, that explain the reasoning that one cannot produce a document against the other (to be used) because we write documents for a borrower even if not in the presence of the lender so we are concerned that the party that produced it is the borrower. This concern would only apply to a document that contains a kinyan as we said above at the end of Siman 39. That is why the Mechaber wrote that this only applies for a document that contains a kinyan, Thus, his words are contradictory). A third party cannot produce a document on either of them because each one can say it was not written against me but against the other, unless the document’s witnesses themselves come and say that this is the document we testified on and this is the party that we testified was involved in the loan. If other witnesses testify in that way, the loan has the status of a verbal loan. If one of the Yosef ben Shimons was a minor on the date of the document, we would collect from the other. What is the way to rectify this issue? They should write the names of their grandfathers. If their grandfathers also had the same name, they should write some other sign. RAMA: There are those that say that if they are from different cities then they can produce a document against each other because they must write the name of the borrower’s city or the lender’s city in the document. (Tur, in the name of Rabbeinu Yeshayah) There are those that say that we do not write the name of the city in the document (Rambam, Perek 17; Tur, Siman 61) and this is in fact the custom. However, if they are from two different cities and they wrote the name of the city of one of them, this is certainly no worse than a sign and there is no room for error. This is what appears correct to me. If there are two Yosef ben Shimons in one city and one of their fathers had died and in the document it says yv’s, shli’t or nr’v like we write for someone who is alive and the witnesses wrote “Yosef ben Shimon shli’ta told us” that would qualify as a sign. If, however, the document says, “I, Yosef ben Shimon shli’t” or something similar, “borrowed from so and so…” and the witnesses signed below, that would not qualify as a sign because perhaps the second Yosef ben Shimon wrote this with trickery and the witnesses did not pick up on it because they are not signing on everything in the document. (Beis Yosef in the name of the Rashba) If, however, they were to produce a document against a third party, that third party would not be able to say 'I did not owe you but instead owed the other person who has the same name as you', because we assume that the person who produced the document is the rightful owner of the document. RAMA: If, however, Yosef ben Shimon did not produce the document, he would not be able to take away money from the borrower (Nimukei Yosef in the name of the Ritva), even if the borrower confesses that he owes one of them, unless the two Yosef ben Shimons were to write a power-of-attorney to each other. If the borrower is in possession of a receipt from one of them, neither of them can make a claim against the borrower because the borrower can tell each one that you wrote this receipt for me. If, however, they were to write a power-of-attorney to each other, one of them would be able to collect because the borrower admits that he only paid one back. If the borrower claims he paid back both of them but only demanded one receipt because it would suffice to show that receipt to whichever one comes to him to claim the loan, the claim would be valid and the power-of-attorney would not be effective.

Source 12 · Acharonim
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Mesillat Yesharim 3

מסילת ישרים ג׳:י״ז-י״ח — ד"ה וְהָבֵן כַּמָּה נִפְלָא הַמַּאֲמָר הָאֲמִתִּי הַזֶּה

Mesillat Yesharim 3:17-18

Ramchal emphasizes careful examination and the need to avoid being misled by superficial appearances. Applied cautiously to the sugya, this supports reading the repeated-name example as a lesson that an apparently precise label may still fail to identify reality adequately.

וְהָבֵן כַּמָּה נִפְלָא הַמַּאֲמָר הָאֲמִתִּי הַזֶּה לְמִי שֶׁמַּעֲמִיק לְהָבִין בּוֹ. כִּי הִנֵּה חֹשֶׁךְ הַלַּיְלָה שְׁנֵי מִינֵי טָעוּיוֹת אֶפְשָׁר לוֹ שֶׁיִּגְרֹם לְעֵין הָאָדָם: אוֹ יְכַסֶּה אֶת הָעַיִן עַד שֶׁלֹּא יִרְאֶה מַה שֶּׁלְּפָנָיו כְּלָל, אוֹ שֶׁיַּטְעֶה אוֹתוֹ עַד שֶׁיִּרְאֶה עַמּוּד כְּאִלּוּ הוּא אָדָם, וְאָדָם כְּאִלּוּ הוּא עַמּוּד. כֵּן חָמְרִיּוּת וְגַשְׁמִיּוּת הָעוֹלָם הַזֶּה, הִנֵּה הוּא חֹשֶׁךְ הַלַּיְלָה לְעֵין הַשֵּׂכֶל, וְגוֹרֵם לוֹ שְׁתֵּי טָעוּיוֹת:

How wondrous is this truthful statement to one who delves deeply to understand it. For behold the darkness of night causes man's eyes to err in two ways. (1) it covers the eye so that he cannot see at all what is before him. (2) Or it deceives him so that a pillar appears as if it is a man or a man as a pillar. So too, the material and physicality of this world - behold it is darkness of night to the eye of the intellect, and causes him to err on two fronts:

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    from our library copy — not yet checked against the original

  • Gittin 34b:2unverified

    מַתְנִי׳ בָּרִאשׁוֹנָה הָיָה מְשַׁנֶּה שְׁמוֹ וּשְׁמָהּ, שֵׁם עִירוֹ וְשֵׁם עִירָהּ. הִתְקִין רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל הַזָּקֵן שֶׁיְּהֵא כּוֹתֵב: ״אִישׁ פְּלוֹנִי וְכׇל שׁוּם שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ״, ״אִשָּׁה פְּלוֹנִית וְכׇל שׁוּם שֶׁיֵּשׁ לָהּ״ – מִפְּנֵי תִּיקּוּן הָעוֹלָם. גְּמָ׳ אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל, שְׁלַחוּ לֵיהּ בְּנֵי מְדִינַת הַיָּם לְרַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל: בְּנֵי אָדָם הַבָּאִים מִשָּׁם לְכָאן, שְׁמוֹ יוֹסֵף – וְקוֹרְאִין לוֹ יוֹחָנָן; יוֹחָנָן – וְקוֹרְאִין לוֹ יוֹסֵף, הֵיאַךְ מְגָרְשִׁין נְשׁוֹתֵיהֶן? עָמַד רַבָּן גַּמְלִיאֵל, וְהִתְקִין שֶׁיְּהוּ כּוֹתְבִין: ״אִישׁ פְּלוֹנִי וְכׇל שׁוּם שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ״, ״אִשָּׁה פְּלוֹנִית וְכׇל שׁוּם שֶׁיֵּשׁ לָהּ״ – מִפְּנֵי תִּיקּוּן הָעוֹלָם. אָמַר רַב אָשֵׁי: וְהוּא דְּאִתַּחְזַק בִּתְרֵי שְׁמֵי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי אַבָּא לְרַב אָשֵׁי: רַבִּי מָרִי וְרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר קָיְימִי כְּווֹתָךְ. הָהִיא דַּהֲווֹ קָרוּ לַהּ מִרְיָם, וּפוּרְתָּא שָׂרָה. אָמְרִי נְהַרְדָּעֵי: מִרְיָם וְכֹל שׁוּם שֶׁיֵּשׁ לָהּ, וְלָא שָׂרָה וְכֹל שׁוּם שֶׁיֵּשׁ לָהּ.

    from our library copy — not yet checked against the original

  • Bava Metzia 28unverified

    Filed under: עדים

  • Megillah 3aunverified

    Filed under: Use of Gd's Name

  • Filed under: גדר של העד

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